Granny Hillier and the Bushrangers' Guinea

Bushrangers Hall, Dunn and Gilbert attack police guarding the Gundagai Mail 1865. Dunn and Gilbert may have splashed out a substantial sum for lunch in the Lade Vale/Mundoonen district not long before or after this event [Picture: State Library of Victoria via Wikimedia Commons].

New Discovery About Local Bushranging History – Or Mundoonen Myth?

Over the last few months lifelong Gunning and Lade Vale resident, Mr Sid Hillier, has been generously and helpfully back grounding me on local history. Among other things, Sid has told me about a family story concerning his grandmother, Ellen (Granny) Hillier, and the notorious bushrangers Dunn and Gilbert.

I bring Sid’s story to you despite it leaving some important questions unanswered. The Gunning District Historical Society would not normally publish mythical tales but I believe this to be an essentially true account of an historical event. Yes, there are a few significant gaps which you may feel places it more in the category of myth rather than history. But many myths explore the human condition and speak to deeper truths. Remember also the legend of Troy - once thought to be a baseless tale until Schliemann, guided by his copy of Homer’s Iliad, unearthed the remains of this ancient and very real city.

Sid Hillier, pictured recently in the sitting room of his childhood home at Woodlands in Lade Vale. Both Sid and his nephew Bill Barton (centre) lived in this house in their younger days. Both remember Granny Hillier who lived close nearby in what we would call a Granny Flat today. Sid and Bill laughingly asserted that the current owner of Woodlands, Rosemary Spiller (right), reminded them of Granny Hillier – although in what way they were not very clear.  

Granny Hillier’s Story as Remembered by Sid

Circumstances, which are not known to us now, meant that for some of her life Ellen was obliged to raise her children alone - something that she did very successfully but, we must presume, not without difficulty. During this period the widowed Ellen lived in a house on the property of Lade Vale/Mundoonen district grazier Wilfred Bayley which adjoined the Old Gap Road – just south of where Rock Lodge Road meets the Old Hume Highway today. 

Dunn and Gilbert sometimes frequented this area during their criminal career in which, together with Ben Hall, they committed numerous armed robberies and two police killings. Ellen often spoke of seeing Dunn and Gilbert near the property and once, when she was home alone, involuntarily entertaining the pair to an impromptu lunch. The incident we are exploring here probably took place between mid 1864 and early May 1865 when their careers came to an end.

Before we get to the dinner at Ellen’s we should first meet her two guests, Dunn and Gilbert.

John Dunn, the teenage bushranger, was a home grown product born at Murrumburrah in 1846.

John Dunn [via Wikimedia]

Dunn was a good horseman and stock handler as well as an occasional jockey at Yass race meetings. He was possibly influenced by his grandfather to take up bushranging.

Like his two co-offenders, Dunn was said to be unfailingly polite and considerate to women.

He murdered Constable Nelson, a father of eight children, at Collector when the policeman courageously went alone to confront the three.

John Gilbert [via Wikimedia].

John Gilbert was born in Canada circa 1842. He arrived in Victoria in 1852 and worked as a stable boy before going to the gold diggings and falling into bad company.

Gilbert was a superb horseman and a flashy dresser with a convivial and convincing manner. He packed a lot into his short criminal career. He killed Sergeant Parry during a gun battle near Gundagai.

Accounts of these bushrangers tell us they were always polite to women. Ellen told her family she never felt afraid of them when they were around. Whatever redeeming features the pair may have had, we cannot escape the fact that they were murderous rural gangsters. They stole large amounts from innocent travellers and locals – sometimes all that their victims had in the world. I don’t think their lives deserve to be celebrated and there is enough about them on the public record already so I won’t explore their criminal careers any further here.

Although their history is well recorded, I believe this short account of Dunn and Gilbert dining at Ellen’s kitchen is a new addition to the published record of the pair. Just a small footnote in history, it won’t add to GDHS’s reputation by triggering a major re-assessment of the pair. It also invites some questions which I now attempt to do battle with below.

Dinner with Ellen

Ellen's tale as remembered by Sid is that Dunn and Gilbert arrived at her door one day asking to be fed. She seated them at the kitchen table and presented them with whatever she was able to whip up at short notice. Oh for a time machine so we could hear what they discussed and see what they ate! Alas, these questions must remain a mystery.

The two diners were clearly satisfied with Ellen’s culinary efforts because, after their departure, she found a very valuable coin left under one of the plates in payment. Sid says Ellen was always very clear that the coin was a guinea.

That is the essence of Granny Hillier’s tale as it has come down to us today. Sid is a sincere and honest witness, relaying Ellen’s story as he remembers it long after the event. I have little doubt that the pair did indeed dine in the way described. But there are some important details we need to clarify.

The Coin Under the Plate

Dunn and Gilbert left a very substantial token of their appreciation - of that we can be sure. But it is highly probable that the coin was a sovereign rather than a guinea. England stopped minting guineas in 1814, nearly half a century before the bushrangers were lurking around Lade Vale. Prices were still often quoted in guineas but, according to Mr Ken Downie (senior numismatist and owner of the Macquarie Mint), it is very unlikely that guineas were still in circulation in the 1860s.

Australia was turning out full and half gold sovereigns from 1855. According to Mr Downie, it was not uncommon for a sovereign to be referred to as a guinea. A guinea was worth 21 shillings, just over £1, while a sovereign was £1 or 20 shillings exactly – not a substantial difference at all.

 An Australian gold sovereign from 1857. A coin like this is very likely to have been left under Ellen's plate. Perhaps the sovereign Dunn and Gilbert used to pay for their lunch had just been taken from a Mr John Ross who was robbed by the pair not far from Bayley’s place on the Old Gap Road on 25 January 1865. Photo: Wikipedia.

Hey Big Spender, Spend a Little Time With Me

If we could tell Ellen today that she had been given a sovereign rather than the guinea she remembered, she would have no cause to feel she had been diddled. A sovereign in the 1860s was big money. The going rate for female “Thorough Servants”, cooks, laundresses and the like stood between £14 to £20 pa. So, a sovereign [at £1 or 20 shillings] would be equivalent to at least 5 weeks wages for someone like Ellen.

Feeling the Opportunity Cost of Going Bushranging – or Improvident Big Noters?

If they were respectable clerks or clergymen Dunn and Gilbert could have bought a very fine lunch for a lot less than a sovereign at any public house or cafe. For example, in Sydney around this time Monsieur Cheval (yes, that really was his name!) of the Café de Paris was advertising lunches comprising a dish of soup, two dishes of meat or fish, one dish of vegetables plus bread for only 2s 6d per head. So, why did they pay so much over the odds on this occasion?

We know these bushrangers were welcome in some of the more dubious houses of public entertainment such as the Black Swan at Binalong and Mr Dillon’s public house at Murrumbarah. The Gap Inn run by Edward Margules was just down the road. Why didn’t they nip down there for a quick counter lunch?

Keith Brown (GDHS archivist, author and an authority on local inns and innkeepers), tells me Mr Margules’ establishment was a well run one. He would be unlikely to receive them willingly. His inn was also on a well policed beat. Not a safe place for wanted bushrangers - so perhaps they paid big to local people for hospitality in the hope they would not be shopped to the police.

Keith also suggests they were just big noting “easy come, easy go” types whose pockets and saddle bags were laden with cash and valuables. We also know that Hall in particular tired of his uncomfortable and often solitary life on the run so would sometimes bail people up just for a chat as much as robbery. Dunn and Gilbert may have been feeling the need for some homely comfort and cheer which their lives as criminals on the run denied them - and were happy to pay accordingly.

There is another possibility. You may have noticed a censorious tone in my account of Dunn and Gilbert. I certainly don't see a lot to admire in them but, on reflection, I now wonder if their huge payment was an act of common decency - a Robin Hood moment in which the pair saw a good woman making do in a difficult situation and were moved to help in an undemonstrative way.

The Final Hurdle at Which We Stumble (But Run On Regardless)

Granny Hillier was born in 1854. Gilbert was shot dead by police at Binalong in May 1865 and Dunn captured for the second and final time later that year. This means young Ellen could have been no older than around 10 at the time the pair were hanging about in the Mundoonens - certainly old enough to bang out an impromptu meal for two bushrangers. But she could not have been a battling widow at the time.

Was she resident on Mr Bayley’s property then? According to her obituary in the Goulburn Evening Post in July 1946, she was born at Picton and moved to our district when she married Richard Hillier. There seem to have been longstanding links between the Bayley and Hillier families so it is possible she and her mother visited from Picton and may have been present at the same time as the bushrangers. There is, however, no evidence of this at the moment.

This leaves us, I think, with an essentially sound kernel of historical fact. Dunn and Gilbert likely did call on a Mundoonen resident for a meal and left a very generous tip. It may or may not have been Ellen herself who provided the meal. She could have been relating an account she had heard from somebody else in the district to her grandchildren. Or, maybe, she was visiting from Picton at the time – perhaps accompanying her mother.

It is very understandable that some elements of the account could become scrambled over time. That does not mean it is not essentially true. I hope you agree with me that it merits being told.

Do You Know More?

If you can help us clear up the hazier details of this account GDHS would be delighted to hear from you. You can contact us at gunninghistory@gmail.com.

Sources and Further Reading

If you want to know more about Dunn, Gilbert et al, late colonial currency or local inns I suggest the following:

Teenage Bushranger: The Story of John Dunn who rode with Ben Hall by Kerry Medway.  A sympathetic fictionalized biography of Dunn. Available in the Gunning Public Library.

Where Once the Wagons Went by Keith Brown.  A thorough account of inns and innkeepers of early Gunning and surrounds. Go to the top right hand side of this website for further details.

The Justice and Police Museum has a succinct and fair account of bushrangers such as Dunn and Gilbert.  Go to https://sydneylivingmuseums.com.au/justice-police-museum.

The Reserve Bank of Australia Museum https://museum.rba.gov.au and Royal Australian Mint https://www.ramint.gov.au both cover the history of Australian currency.

Neither the Reserve Bank nor the Royal Australian Mint knew anything about whether or not guineas were still circulating in the 1860s! They suggested contacting coin dealers on this question. The Macquarie Mint (http://www.macquariemint.com) was very helpful so if you are looking to buy or sell a sovereign or 1930 penny I would give this company a try.

Finally, a special thank you to Sid and Maree Hillier for sharing this story with me and putting up with far too many follow up questions and afterthoughts.